Teachers who wear a full face veil have been quietly barred from their jobs by the Syrian government in a move the authorities say is necessary to protect secularism and ensure children receive an objective education.
Civil society organisations believe that 1,200 women have been affected by the measure, with all of them moved from their teaching positions and given jobs in local municipal authority offices.
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In response to queries made during a teachers’ syndicate meeting, chaired by a member of the ruling Ba’ath Party, Mr Saad said: “Education in Syrian schools follows an objective, secular methodology and this is undermined by wearing the face veil.”
I support this decision in its entirety. As an operator of public education, and a guardian of the upbringing of children, the state has the right to dictate the quality of the message and the messenger alike.
Teachers are not only vehicles of delivery. They are role-models and they have a significant impact on impressionable kids. The face veil (aka the Niqab) is at the end of the day an extreme interpretation of Islam. It indicates that the person who follow the practice had chosen to adopt the most rigid of choices.
Don't get me wrong, I realize there are wonderful and intelligent Niqabi women out there who manage to overcome the difficulties the Niqab imposes. And for what it is worth I do not call for banning the face veil altogether. But when it comes to national curricula and public education, we must be realistic and acknowledge that if we were to serve secularism as an objective, then certain guidelines must be observed. (and yes, I believe the ban is correct even if teachers tended to remove their face veil inside the classroom).
As for my personal view of the face veil: as I said many times before in my endless arguments with friends and colleagues: there are two ways to look at it: one is from an entirely Islamic Sharia based point of view (which I'm not going to wade into because even the most accomplished and loud scholars of Islam haven't reached a consensus), and second is from the secular point of view that respects and protects social liberties.
The latter approach, which I tend to adopt, maintains that wearing face veil is a personal choice as long as it doesn't project harm unto others in the society. To my knowledge, there hasn't been any demonstrable evidence that face veil is harmful to those who wear it and the people surrounding them. Thus, I rule that Belgium and France ban of the Niqab is hypocritical and myopic.
It's a different case with teachers, for the reasons I've mentioned above. Even though the face veil must be tolerated and accepted, its spread is not something I look at with pleasure. The Niqab, in my humble opinion, is itself a form of a ban. Men are banned from seeing the face of the woman in question, and the woman is banned from showing it to them. And if my simplified interpretation bothers you, I'm not going to go as far as to say that banning the ban is akin to correcting a wrong, but I'm not going to praise the Niqab either.
I once toyed with the idea that, if ever I'm to go settle back home, I will not settle in Aleppo, my freaking home town. Here's what worries me the most: the article says out of the 1200 teachers subject to the ban, 600 were from Aleppo (my freaking home town). Keeping in mind that Aleppo plays host to only 20 % of the population; the rate of wearing the face veil, in my freaking home town, is 4 times the national average.
My dear Abu Fares, how is Tartous looking these days? :-)
21 comments:
". . . the article says out of the 1200 teachers subject to the ban, 600 were from Aleppo (my freaking home town). Keeping in mind that Aleppo plays host to only 20 % of the population; the rate of wearing the face veil, in my freaking home town, is 4 times the national average."
Hey DJ,
Inspite of my best efforts, I am not able to do the math. Should'nt it be 2.5 times instead of 4 times?
1) 1,200 x 20% = 240)
2) 600 / 240 = 2.5
Hi QOQ:
I've done it this way:
The national average for the non-Aleppo folks is 600 for 80% of the population. Ergo if Aleppo's 20% had the same rate, then the number would be: (20/80) x 600 = 150.
But instead of 150 (which is what would the number would be if we had the same rate across the board), we actually have 600. Which means we're 4 times the national average!
Hey, doing the maths:
Dj says A. represents 20 percent of population.
So, for country
1,200/x (where x is pop) is proportion of veil wearers for country(teachers i mean).
For A.
600/(x x 20%) = proportion for A.
600/(x x 0.2) = prop for A.
600/0.2x = prop
6000/2x = prop
3000/x = prop.
If we calcuate the meta proportion,
Proportion of veils in A/Proportion for country
(3000/x) / (1200/x)
For some reason, my calculations for excessive veil wearing comes out to b 3000/1200 =30/12 = 10/4 = 2.5
So QoQ seems right. A. has a 2.5 times greater PROPORTION of veil wearing.
But in terms of absolute figures. Let's say pop = 4,800
A. pop = 20% of 4800 = 480= 960
no. of veils = 600.
Therefore, proportion = 600/960 = 62.5 %
For rest of country, prop = 1200/4800 = 25 percent.
Difference in proportion = 2.5
So A. has a 250 percent inflation, not a 400 percent inflation, IMHO.
This was fun :p
Maybe I'm a little biased in my views being a Munaqaba myself but here goes nothing..
When I first read this article again I had to keep my emotions in check and re-read it again and I have to say that at least the government has provided them jobs elsewhere.
Question for you DJ: To what extent is secularism present in Syria both on a public level and government level?
I don't however agree with your statement that the Niqab is an extreme interpretation of Islam.
Actually thats a common myth that most people usually tend to spout, claiming that Niqab began with the Salaffiya/Wahabi movement.
Sunni Islam is built on the four schools of thought, Hanabila, Maliki, Hanafiya & Shafiee. ALL four schools of thought agree on the position that the Niqab is a part of Islam, recommended and a lot of them hold the opinion that its Wajib. [Although there is an opinion that its also mustahabb which Ill put in here incase it gets attacked on - anyway not the point].
Just because people dont practice it as much anymore doesnt mean its a 'rigid' or extreme interpretation of Islam or Sharia. In fact, go back a few years, Niqab was 3adi in most Muslim Countries.
I think people need to realise that Women who wear the face-veil are as Women as other Women who don't. I oppose this move, especially if teachers were opting to uncover their face while teaching I dont see what the problem is.
If its a matter of 'secular' identity or children being affected by their teachers, what evidence or proof does anyone have that other teachers in different ways won't somehow force or influence children by their beliefs? I think that argument is a little weak.
No it really isn't. Remember, i asked you a similar question in your presentation at #GeekFest, and you acknowledged there would be fields you might not enter because of choice. This is one of them.
I respect your right to veil. But children/learners require rich interaction that includes facial tone and expression. Veil unless it does demonstrable harm. In banks, in schools and in airplane cockpits, it can be shown to have demonstrable harm. sorry, CD.
BTW DJ, who knows, you might one day end up with a wifey who wears the Niqab from Aleppo ;) LOL [jk]
Hello Hisham,
You (and QoQ) are both right. I think the difference is that in my own method of calculating the "national" average I'd excluded the representative number of Niqabis in my home town.
So I think a more accurate way of putting my conclusion would be: you're four times more likely to encounter a Niqabi in Aleppo compared to the rest of Syria.
Of course, we're both working on the premise that there is a fixed proportion of teachers among Niqabi women across the board .. :-)
Hisham, I'd like to know if the teachers were teaching veiled or unveiled. The article does not clarify that. In front of children we don't veil anyway so that shouldn't be a problem.
Besides that my last argument [which Im assuming your 'no it isn't' was a response to was based on the claim that this move was being taken to protect the 'secular' objective values and also that teachers don't influence children with their beliefs. What guarantee do we have others won't in their own way?
And Im probably opening another can of worms here, but to what extent is seeing a persons face important [and again to what extent] whilst learning?
If its such a major issue, why do we have online or distance learning institutes/learning facilities?
Hmmmm.
yes, dj. We're comparing proportions. You're comparing absolutes.
And CD, if you don't veil in front of children, then my argument does NOT stand. I didn't plan on arguing from a "don't influence my kid" POV- i merely meant in some instances, the veil can be a barrier.
But to be perfectly honest, I may not want my kid to be taught by a niqabi. But that's a difference of opinion. And differences of opinion are insufficient for a ban. As long as teachers are competent and stick to the syllabus, they can have whatever beliefs they want. Cheers!
Hisham, we actually agree on something. *gasp*
BTW, its PD NOT CD :(
Hello PD,
Syrian law is fairly secular by middle eastern standards. But we've got Sharia inspired personal status law. (I'm saying Sharia inspired because it's not totally compliant with the text.)
However, you've got varying degrees of secularism among people.
If you remember, I was actually present during your presentation at Geekfest. And despite your wearing the Niqab, your presentation was eloquent and I don't think anyone in the audience had a problem communicating with you (or vice versa).
My issue with the Niqab isn't personal, I absolutely defend your right to wear it. But as Hisham said, there are practical issues with education: I remember how close we were to our teachers in elementary school. How we'd meet them while shopping and introduce our families. How we'd go on trips and they'd be our guides and guardians...etc...
Also, I'm not convinced that wearing the Niqab is the moderate choice. Even for someone like me whose knowledge of Sharia is limited, I know there's a choice for women not to wear it. So the decision to take up the choice that, by the look of things, makes your life more difficult, is somewhat indicative of inflexibility. Please don't take this as a judgement on your person. It's not intended to be. Also, in the article you'd see that wearing the Niqab is a rising trend in Syria. You'd probably see this as positive thing. And while I'm saying good for these women if that's what they want, I don't like this trend one bit. See, this is what this debate boils down to: secularism versus religiosity. We've got a plethora of religions, ethnic minorities and sects in Syria: for the sake of our collective peace, we can't afford but to be secular.
DJ,
Yes, like I mentioned earlier in my post, there are two opinion on the Niqab and both are valid. However, even the opinion that does not put it across as being 'fardh' makes it a point for it to be 'mustahabb'.
I'm not getting into the legalities of the different rulings on Niqab here, but pointing out that the opinion on Niqab is very much found in Islam on a whole and not an invention that was done later on/or a rigid interpretation done by just one sect.
Example, a Woman could still hold the belief that wearing the Niqab is just Mustahabb but still opt to wear it for more ajer.
As for, So the decision to take up the choice that, by the look of things, makes your life more difficult, is somewhat indicative of inflexibility. I think we can safely say this one of those 'each to their own' opinions.
I beg to differ, yes, wearing Niqab does sometimes make things difficult but there are a plethora of reasons why one chooses to wear the Niqab. Higher level of modesty, being closer to God, etc. However, I don't think it makes me or other Women out there'inflexible'.
There is a general saying in Islam that the more closer you come to God, the more you're tested in his way. And its true, nothing comes easy in life, religious or not. Just because I might face some difficult in wearing the Niqab doesn't mean I stop believing in what it means to me.
PD,
The likelihood of me eventually getting married to a Niqabi is rising everyday.
But I'm cool with that. All women are equal in the bedroom... :-)
Salam to all
First of all, let me start by saying that I believe and hope that everyone in this world shall have their own freedom protected and respected in what they wear or don't wear for that matter.
Now here's my beef with the idea of Niqab; it's not that I'm not aware of what PD mentioned about the Niqab being "mustahabb" in Islam and all, although to myself I would like to think that the decision on Niqab is "inconclusive", and I have the utmost respect to all those who use it. However, if you take up the ideology of Niqab and the principle of "a woman's voice is 3awra" and apply them in full force; this would severely limit women's interaction with the outside world. And you can imagine what happens if those women are teachers who have to talk to a janitor or a student's dad.
As for teaching, and I've been teaching for over five years, the existence of online courses is a convenience to those who can't make it to school but never a replacement for classroom interaction. Human beings do actually interact with their facial features; and if you don't believe me, try to make an infant laugh by making funny faces from behind a veil. Every woman who wears a Niqab enjoys the ability to watch other people's facial expressions without sharing her own.
From a teacher's point of view, I cannot ask a student who wears a Niqab to reveal her face and I don't think the power of controlling student's attire should be given to teachers. On the other hand, this student for all I know might be asleep or sticking out her tongue at me. I can't look her in the eye and I can't tell if she's got what I'm talking about which is very frustrating.
This is only part of what makes me believe that Niqab is not, to say the least, practical in all forums. You may live in countries like Saudi Arabia where segregation between sexes is a state policy and then the Niqab idea may work fine for you, but in most other countries I honestly don't think it's "practical".
From a religion point of view, I am a Muslim and I believe in a great God and a merciful one. God ordered us to dress modestly in all major religions and he also ordered us to live our lives, learn, work and be productive. I don't have the religious knowledge to debate whether or not Niqab is fardh, but I certainly hope that God will not punish his servants who did not abide by it.
Ok, I'm going to take a risk here. Please do not choose to be offended by anythig I say, I'm not in any way suggesting you should agree with me, but I hold my opinion as passionately as you hold yours.
I'm not a Muslim and I have to say that I am extremely uncomfortable with the concept that in order to be "modest" a woman has to be effectively invisible.
Lets face it, God brings us into the world naked, so in fact clothing is a man made affectation. I will admit that its a very useful affectation and there are some bodies that really should be as covered as possible - mine included!
But to tell a girl that showing any part of her God given body, even a foot, a hand or a scrap of hair, is immodest? Sorry, that can't be right.
Then there's the communication issue. We communicate with our whole bodies not just our voice. If you can't see any part of someone's body the possibility of misunderstanding is huge. Ali is right, covering the face gives the other person no real clue what is going on under the veil and that is not fair. In some situations it is downright threatening.
PD, you say being covered brings you closer to God. I'm not sure how that works but I'm sure it is your passionately held belief and I respect your right to hold it, and your commitment to your values. However, please don't judge those of us who think God can see far deeper into our souls than just the outer covering.
I do understand that in ancient times in such a harsh climate, in the absence of sunscreen, covering the face is a practicality. But I can't accept that a loving God requires half the population to be invisible.
Susan is right on the money and expresses very well the views that I and a significant amt of my freinds have.
Ali, Susan and Dave,
I agree with you all. Thanks for commenting!
Sorry for the late in put but I just wanted to clarify a few things.
Ali: Islamically a Womans voice is only 3awra when she beautifies it, example sings. A normal voice of a Woman is not considered 3awra.
Susan, I guess different strokes for different folks. :) We have different views/concepts on modestly.
PD:
You may have different views on modesty but by insisting on wearing a niqab in all sorts of situations, you impose your views on others... for example, in the classroom, or during a passport check... or even at a non-muslim's house.
Secondly, for a multi-cultural soceity to work its best if religion, sexual preferences etc stay a private affair. By wearing a veil at all times in a place where no one else is you are attracting attention all the time. Hardly modest. More rigid, than modest.
When my muslim friend comes to my house and prays in a corner, I welcome it. When my gay friend comes over, I invite his partner.
But if my gay friends decided to travel by train in India and decided to smooch, where is not illegal to do so, I'd mind the attention it would bring to us. In the same way, if my muslim friend wore her niqab or hijab and fussed about who could see her face or hair in my non-muslim household, she'd stick out - even though the men in our house are rather respectful to women.
Like Susan, many other non-muslim women feel judged by your take on "modesty".
Restrictions are great in a world where everyone is like you. In a mixed up world such as ours, they breed ghettos.
I wish to point out that Niqab is really very uncommon in Syrian societies just as much as it is common in Saudi or Iran for example. This is a clutural issue mostly. I remember when i was in Saudi that children used to see me and freak out or even cry and run away to their mothers' laps even if i smile to them or give them candies, only because i didnt cover my face...apparently they r not used to see women this way...or maybe i was very ugly and scary i dnno. The point is, the same thing happens in Syrian schools when a Niqabi teacher steps into a class full of kids! Why are some people even surprised? Why are we still arguing if the ban is a valid decision or not?
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